Reel: As a documentary topic, what drew you to the story of Crazy Love?
Dan Klores: It was probably my psychological connection to Burt and Linda that most attracted me. Some part of me related to the thought: What would make a man break to the extent that Burt did? On another level, I felt this deep connection to Linda and the question of how far people will go not to be alone.
Reel: As you investigated the story, what were some of the most surprising things you discovered?
DK: I didn't know about Burt's suicide attempt. I didn't know that [leading up to Burt's attack on her] Linda would go to the police every day and ask for help--though they did nothing. I also discovered that later on, when Burt was in prison, there was another guy who wanted a relationship with Linda, and it was at that moment she had to reveal herself [take her glasses off] to someone for the first time since she was blinded. That was a big, big thing. I knew the peripheral stuff of the story, but in my research the details just kept unfolding.
Reel: How far along into your research did you decide to turn this from a narrative feature into a documentary film?
DK: I never saw it as a straight narrative. I had this crazy idea of doing it as kind of a hybrid between a narrative and a doc, as a way to examine obsession. I thought of doing interviews, like in a documentary, and then shoot scripted scenes, as if it was a narrative. But it all got too complicated and I ended up going the full documentary route. Actually, we're in discussions now to do a feature version of the doc.
Reel: That makes total sense. The subject matter is a natural—and such great parts for an actor and actress.
DK: Absolutely. A number of studios had tried to do this story as a feature over the years, but it never happened. Hopefully now it will.
Reel: What would you say were the biggest challenges in putting the film together?
DK: The challenges were in the storytelling, in how and when to mix the dark humor. How much should we include? How far can we go? There were so many choices to make once we started editing—I had a ton of material to choose from. There were things I still wish I could've put into the film. Burt and Linda's sex life, for instance, is something I feel I could've explored more. But the challenges began right from the start. It took a lot of hard work to get all the archival material. I also worked my ass off finding everyone who was somehow connected to the story. A number of people wouldn't do interviews, but many of those same people led me to others who would talk to me.
Reel: What were your initial feelings about Linda and Burt, as people, before you met them? How did those impressions change over the course of making the film?
DK: I went through a variety of different feelings about both of them. Initially I thought about Burt, "This guy's gotta be nuts." About Linda, I just felt so badly for her. Then I'd meet with them and think that Burt was a nice old guy who talked too much and that Linda was kind of a dame. I finally realized most of that "dame" quality was a façade—though clearly a façade that's become a part of her. I tried very hard not to pass judgment on Linda because her experience is like no one else's. On the other hand, there are times when she's unbelievably bossy—there, I've just passed judgment!
Reel: From a psychological point of view, how would you explain the Burt-Linda relationship?
DK: That's interesting. We had a screening of the film in New York for about 100 psychiatrists, with a panel discussion afterwards. During the Q&A, one of the shrinks asked me a brilliant question: "Did I think Linda was a tragic figure or the definition of a masochist?" I answered that you could ask the same about Burt. It was strange; sometimes I felt a lot of sympathy for Burt, especially for him as a child to have had that type of [dysfunctional] mother, who was clearly the root of his problems. How would he have turned out if he grew up in a different home? With Linda, it's the same thing. She also grew up in an unstable family environment. Burt and Linda both carried around serious emotional scars, still do.
Reel: What do you think brought Burt and Linda together?
DK: You mean in the bigger sense? I don't know, fate? God? That they were made for each other? Maybe it wasn't an accident--that, in a way, they're the only people who could've been with the other. I don't think there are any real answers to that question.
Reel: The film is very revealing and surprising. Were there any things you wanted Burt or Linda or any of the other folks you interviewed to discuss that they wouldn't?
DK: The last question I asked Linda during the interview was if she would take off her glasses. She wouldn't and said, "I won't take them off, even for you, because I think I look like a freak. I have one glass eye and the other is inverted." She repeated, "I think I look like a freak." I couldn't get her answer, which was so astounding, to work in the film the way I wanted, so I left it out. But seeing Linda without her glasses was definitely a place I wanted to go.
Reel: Conversely, was there anything that was said that you thought was too revealing or difficult to include on screen?
DK: Nothing was too difficult. In fact, I asked one tough question that I'm actually very proud of. When Burt was telling me about his suicide attempt, how he cut his wrists and rubbed the blood all over his face, I asked him, "What do you remember about the temperature of the blood?" He answered, "The blood was warmer than I thought it would be." Wow.
Reel: I think the greatest reveal in the film is the moment we understand why Linda's wearing sunglasses the whole time she's being interviewed. How did you decide exactly when to let the audience in on that?
DK: I have to tell you, that's just the way I wrote it. During my interviewing process, I outlined every scene for all three acts on paper. I always knew, way before I started editing, that my first act would end with the revelation that Linda had been blinded, just like I knew the second act would end with Linda and Burt getting married. Some people know about Linda's blinding going in, and it's still a surprise to them. I also knew that, in the third act, I wanted it to feel like the film was over and then, boom—there's the surprise that Burt cheated on Linda after they got married. I loved that one.
Reel: The movie is a vivid time capsule of New York from the 1950s to the 1970s, even further enhanced by a clever mix of period music. How did you decide which songs to use and were there any that you really wanted but were unable to secure the rights to?
DK: I've been working with the same music supervisor for four films now, a guy named Brian Chin. He's great—a genius. So many of the selections came from him. There were three songs I had to have and one I didn't get. First was Edie Brickell's version of "I Never Saw the Sun Shine," which was written by Phil Spector. That song just blew me away. I always knew I was going to end the film with it. Then, "Linda," which was brilliantly edited in and so central to the piece, until, toward the end of post-production, I had a major problem clearing it. Turns out, the song was written way back when for a four-year-old girl named Linda Eastman. Know who that is?
Reel: (thinks) No idea.
DK: Paul McCartney's first wife. Her brother, John Eastman, is a friend of mine, a very successful attorney in New York. We have a mutual friend, Lorne Michaels from Saturday Night Live, and Lorne helped me get the song through John. I was also obsessed with Springsteen's "Fire," and I was going to close with the Pointer Sisters' version of it. Ultimately, I couldn't get the rights, so we came up with Elvis's "Burning Love"—which isn't bad, either.
Reel: Hey, I love Springsteen, but "Burning Love" was perfect. You walk out of the film on kind of a high.
DK: I hope so. I don't know, in a way, I think it's a great date movie, don't you? There's just so much to talk about afterwards.
Reel: Yeah, and people will realize, no matter what's wrong with their own relationship, it's pretty good compared to Burt and Linda's.
DK: No question about that! Burt and Linda are one-of-a-kind.